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Thread: [OFFICIAL] TF101 JellyBean Thread

  1. #101
    Jazz
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    Quote Originally Posted by tennisfreak View Post
    I really hope Jelly Bean comes out soon (officially) for the TF101. Ice Cream sandwich feels like a dog now with always choppy animations, freezes, and crashes. I am starting to contemplate if a hard reset is needed for my unit. Keyboard lag is so bad I cant stand it.
    My TF101 is now 99% stable. After a triple factory reset, all the remaining troubles about gmail and maps crashing have gone completely. I'm happy with my device as it is now and overall just satisfied with ICS. But still, Jelly Bean is quite tempting and I'm looking forward to the Official update.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by zAlbee View Post
    :Yes, they are app bugs and new features. The number of Android users downloading apps is huge - Google Play hit 25 billion downloads recently. The developers are active. Why wouldn't they update?

    Your evidence is based on flawed knowledge.
    I have several apps that have received a grand total of 0 updates since ICS was released. Why? Because the developer choses not to, doesn't have the commitment to support the app, or doesn't have the resources to maintain an app over time - you'd have to ask them that question.

    Without taking this to another sidetrack conversation....your perspective is totally wrong.

    There have been thousands of online testimonials demonstrating that flawed apps led to the majority of ICE update issues..not just at this site either. That was followed in intimate detail by months of daily follow-up and research.

    There is not doubt that when ICS was first released (and to no surprise to anyone with knowledge of OS version updates on any platform) that one follow-up version was needed to rectify some key flaws. That occurred is short order after the main release.

    The fact is that many dvelopers do a fine job of updating their apps, including support for new versions. There are others that do a very poor job of it - and most of those tend to fall in the games and utility genre areas. In addition, there are those who root and alter their tablets, while others leave them without modification (most users). Finally, there is a sigificant mix of how users choose, install, and update apps. One app I have installed now for over 2 years had received 77 updates since first installed. All but 9 of those included "bug fixes" in it's release notes. More important yet - this is a common and widely-used Android tablet app...so it's no fluke.

    People need to get real.

    My tablet had the origial ICE update installed, followed by the ICS update. Since about 60 days thereafter (a long time ago), my tablet has never locked up, failed to work, or had any signficiant malfunction. Like many other folks, I've never needed to do a factory reset since it was purchased years ago. Not once. That includes the fact that I only use the stock factory Android Browser without hangups - including sites with significant video content.

    Common diagnostic best practices dictate people need to first look at what is different with their tablet in comparison to base apps, base configurations, and base connectivity (WIFI setups). The more you expand inventories of apps, for examp,me, the higher probability there may be memory conflict, bugs, or other issues resulting in less-than-perfect performance. Since we're all using the very same ICS operating system on the very same TF101 tablet...the only variables are configurations and apps (along with connectivity settings, which fall under configurations). Configurations can be just as much a candidate for "issues", however, I have simply read and seen far too much evidence to overlook the role tha updates or bug-infested apps play in issues".

    Make no mistake - many people fail to follow-up on or install updates to their apps. I just happen to be one of those users who never lets a week go by without checking and installing updates to apps.

    Coming full circle to the topic at hand....

    I anticipate the TF101 Jelly Bean update to emutate history of updates - namely - a new version followed up by an update that addresses any significant reported issues. Since the TF101 is getting JB after other ASUS tablet models...the leassons learned from the other models should help reduce the up-front "issues" as well.
    Last edited by ASUSFAN0001; 10-25-2012 at 06:48 AM.
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  3. #103
    Jazz
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    Well said, this exactly mirrors my experience.

  4. #104
    Starscream
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASUSFAN0001 View Post
    I have several apps that have received a grand total of 0 updates since ICS was released.
    My point is only that app updates were released for app-specific features/fixes, and not for fixing system crashes. The fact that you have apps that didn't update doesn't help your argument. Since your system is not crashing despite this, it actually helps my argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by ASUSFAN0001 View Post
    Without taking this to another sidetrack conversation....your perspective is totally wrong.
    Guess what? I've read through every post on this very forum about every TF101 ICS firmware since the first (there were at least four updates, by the way). If you bothered to read those "testimonials" in detail, you'd realize many of those posts were contradictory. Users could not agree on which apps were problematic. Users who thought their problems were resolved one day, would come back 2-3 days later and post that actually the problem came back and that they were wrong.

    The only conclusive cause that everyone could agree on, was that the wakelock app definitely prevented SOD by preventing the tablet from sleeping. That and custom kernels fixed the issues at their root.

    The one thing you are correct about is that we all run the same code, and the only thing that differs is user apps and user data. Where your attitude is wrong is in saying users should change their usage behaviour to a known working config (not always possible, example: user should not try to change how many emails is in his GMail profile). The more user-friendly attitude is that the system should be supporting both these configurations without crashing (if not supported, it can gracefully fail). And I am telling you, the second attitude is the correct one from an OS software design perspective. In fact, any Linux, Windows, or other programmer would tell you the same thing -- the OS should never crash because of an app. This is a kernel level bug, end of story.

    To use phrases like "memory conflict" shows that you really don't know how OS memory management works, so I see no point in elaborating further.

    By the way, I am happily running JB on my Galaxy Nexus since day one. This is the very first device with JB, so I was an early adopter. There have been absolutely NO crashes, whether before or after apps were updated. Over on the XDA GNex forums, there are no reports of crashes either. Compare this to the TF300 JB update, where I see people reporting the same kind of random reboot problem as we saw during the ICS release. I just have to laugh; I mean, how can ASUS not have learned by now? The unpaid developers over at XDA are doing a better job than this.
    Tablet: Asus TF101 B9O 16 GB + 32 GB microSD | SOC: 1.4 GHz Tegra 2 | OS: Team EOS 4 JB 4.2.2 (latest nightly) | Kernel: KAT 103 | Dock: B7O
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by zAlbee View Post
    My point is only that app updates were released for app-specific features/fixes, and not for fixing system crashes. The fact that you have apps that didn't update doesn't help your argument. Since your system is not crashing despite this, it actually helps my argument.
    First of all....its a discussion and not an argument.

    Second. A number of "fixes" addressed bugs that (in fact) caused operating system or device crashes. Many apps use various drives...and some of those have (to date) been proven to lock up and crash various Android versions. Once the fixes are implemented...the crashes go away. The release notes specifically referenced lockup and crash fixes in those terms. With many thousands of apps available for the TF101 tablet...some are bound to retain "issues". Many apps had them for some time as Honeycomb and Ice Cream Sandwich were both launched.

    Third. I have followed (in extreme detail) app-related bug problems pertaining to crashes of the Android OS. In fact, I started 4 different threads on this topic and "managed" those over a 2-year period. I don't profess to be THE expert, but certainly have "well above average" knowledge on this topic. I can likely count on one hand how many people followed this topic in like manner and also did more than 120 of tests in this area. In addition, other Moderators and my fellow Rescue Squad experts here also participated and concurred on findings. Testimony from developers themselves, as well as PM communications confirming these findings were frequent during that period. Bug fixing tends to be an art form and not a science, so it often takes more than one run to get things right in apps. Game apps have been the #1 source of potential bug eperiences.

    Fourth. Your comment regarding memory conflict illustrates a common misperseption of how some apps can "behave" or "mis-behave" within the Android infrastructure. Certain apps have proven to attempt using open memory block access that simply isn't available or "occupied" by other device resources, such as drivers. This can, in and of itself, cause an app to lock up or prompt an error message.

    Fifth. My TF101 has been operating without lockups, freezes, or error messages since about 45 days aftern ICS was released. Even before that, I had isolated and infrequent issues - but it's been very stable and without incident for quite some time under the Ice Cream Sandwich OS version. Others have indicated similar experiences (not just in this thread). I have 54 installed and 102 apps available (the 48 others are in backup available for restoring as desired). All 54 apps installed get checked a minimum of 3 times per week for updates, or get updated upon notifications from Google Play. The fact that I have 0 stability and operating issues and also religiously keep apps updated is either an extreme coincidence or quite related in some fashion. Either way...having all current versions of apps can only lead to a minimal potential for TF101 operation.

    Finally. This is a TF101 JellyBean thread. Things have gotten off-topic from this back-and-forth dialog. Despite that, some of the information is actually relevant for the upcoming JellyBean update for TF101 - especially post-update experiences.

    So to come full circle and lay to rest any further distractions...let's just say that since the TF101 is last in line to get the JellyBean update, and other tablet models have gone through the post-update cycles previously....we should anticipate less disruption after the TF101 gets its update. Many apps have already been updated to support JellyBean on all Android devices. That's not to say there won't be "issues", but things should go more smoothly with this version transition.

    Bring on the TF101 JellyBean update.
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  6. #106
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    I saw in a recent announcement about Android 4.2 that it will support multiple users on tablets. This is one of the features I have missed the most on my Transformer, and hope this becomes a possibility soon.

  7. #107
    Jazz
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    now that 4.2 is out, and it still is jelly bean, do you guys think the tf101 will get it. I know it's kinda premature wish, but considering it still is jellybean, we should get it right?

  8. #108
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    I think that a JB update to the tf101 was made less likely by the imminent release of 4.2. IMO Asus will need to concentrate on updating the Infinity to 4.2 & that may well prevent the tf101 from getting the incremental update that ICS to JB represents.

    Remember that the tf101 was launched with 3.0 & it got 3.1, 3.2 and 4.0.3 as updates, if Asus do not update it to JB, then I personally do not think they could be criticised.

    All of the above is my opinion & I have no special knowledge or insider intelligence.

    However, I was under the impression that 4.2.2 was KeyLime Pie, not Jelly Bean...
    [Exclusive] Moto Leak: Android 4.2.2=Key Lime Pie + Upgrade Timeline & RAZR X

    But this - Android 4.2 New Features: Plus Video of Nexus 4, Nexus 10, Android 4.2 at Google HQ - says that 4.2 is still JB

    So overall, the picture is confusing, wouldn't you say.
    Last edited by janner43; 10-30-2012 at 05:58 AM.

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  9. #109
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    It really is confusing But, considering the news from android police** ( i think) that some insider said that jb will be rolling out soon for the 101 (cant find a link, sorry) and ASUSFAN's statements, i think the jb update will come for the 101 and with time ( but unlikely) it will see 4.2.. But as you said, they should not be criticised if they do not release 4.2, but should be if they do not release 4.1. The transformer is ready for 4.1..

    But all of this could be wishful thinking

    ** authority. here's the link http://www.androidauthority.com/rumo...n-soon-119700/
    Last edited by matejilic; 10-30-2012 at 06:17 AM.

  10. #110
    Starscream
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    @ASUSFAN:

    Ok, I have been quite busy lately, so don't want to argue. But let me try to explain why I make the claims I make.

    By the way, I searched for the threads that you started and they are not new to me. They are exactly what I was talking about in my previous post when I said the posts were contradictory and "[users] could not agree on which apps were problematic."

    Anyway, I do not want to focus on that, because even the same observations could be possibly explained by more than one theory. You will need more than black-box testing to understand the correct one.


    Quote Originally Posted by ASUSFAN0001 View Post
    Fourth. Your comment regarding memory conflict illustrates a common misperseption of how some apps can "behave" or "mis-behave" within the Android infrastructure. Certain apps have proven to attempt using open memory block access that simply isn't available or "occupied" by other device resources, such as drivers. This can, in and of itself, cause an app to lock up or prompt an error message.
    It's impossible for this reason:

    All user apps use virtual memory addresses. When an app is compiled, all memory addresses it uses are hard-coded. When the app runs, the kernel maps the app's hard-coded, virtual address to a physical address in available RAM. This is important because at compile-time, you don't know which portions of memory are going to be available at run-time. So actually most apps are compiled pointing to the same addresses, but the kernel happily manages this so they point to different physical locations when they run. There is no way for an app to access a specific location in physical memory without support from the kernel.

    However, the kernel can provide this support, say if you wanted to write a User-Space Driver. For such drivers to have direct memory access, they would most likely need to make some system call, which asks the kernel for the memory access. This usually requires root permission. Without this, the kernel will not map the memory addresses, so no matter what memory address the app tries to access, it will either point to a different, safe location in physical memory, or point nowhere and fail. It is safe to say that any apps you install from the Play Store are not User-Space Drivers, and even if they tried, they would not be granted root permission.

    Do you see now why your assertion is absurd? To suggest that an app can crash the system through "memory conflict" is to suggest that there is a glaring security flaw in the system (not impossible, but it'd be a bug that needs to be fixed in the kernel). It would mean I could write a program like this:

    Code:
    void *ptr = 0x80FFFFFF; // arbitrary memory address
    memcpy(ptr, otherlocation, size); // overwrite the memory at above address
    This is an extremely easy program to write. If this program successfully overwrites a portion of memory that belongs to someone else (another app, the system, a device), then that would be an extremely easy way to crash the system. Fortunately, the virtual memory system prevents this from happening.

    Now you think: if this is true, how can the TF101 system crash and cause random reboot? Well memory protection is only given to apps by the kernel. The kernel itself isn't using virtual addresses; it's always using physical addresses (otherwise, it wouldn't be able to manage virtual memory). And yes, the drivers that write directly to hardware are also using physical addresses (assuming they run at "kernel level", but USD is also possible and safer). If you crash at kernel level, you crash the whole system. If you crash at user (app) level, no big deal, the app's virtual address space is wiped (by the kernel) and everyone else continues moving on.

    The reason I bother writing this is because I want to stop seeing:
    1) people blaming the user, and
    2) people blaming the app developers
    for a problem that is clearly (to me) a problem of the OS firmware released by ASUS.
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