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Thread: TF600T or ME400C? Decisions Decisions

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    Soundwave
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    Question TF600T or ME400C? Decisions Decisions

    Hello all:

    This evening I picked up a Vivo Tab TF600T w/keyboard dock for $399 at Best Buy. (They price-matched Micro Center who has the tab o sale for $399 and offers the keyboard dock for free) I think this is a great deal since I get Reward Zone points and have 60 days for a no-hassle return. But when I was browsing the have the ME400C on sale for $439. I didn't realize it runs Windows 8 and not RT. I was very tempted until I realized it doesn't have a keyboard dock, or at least not like the TF600T. And thinking about it, I don't use the keyboard that often on my Infinity. Now I'm not sure what to do.

    I'd appreciate any feedback on pros/cons between the two. Is it worth having Windows 8 with an Atom processor? How does performance compare between the two for general web browsing, movies, etc. The thing that attracts me to the ME400C is the slim design (more than other Windows 8 tabs) and battery life. That is the original reason I went with the RT, battery life. I figured I can get by with RT apps and would wait for Haswell for a full Windows 8 tab.

    I'm sorry for the run-on post but short of buying the ME400C too and doing a side-by-side comparison I'm having a hard time deciding. What items are notable considerations?

    Thank you.

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    Re: TF600T or ME400C? Decisions Decisions

    HEY GOODINTENTIONS, help this OP. Goodintentions has some experience with the vivo tab with rt. Lets see if this attracts his attention?

    Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD

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    Bumblebee
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCLocal View Post
    Hello all:

    This evening I picked up a Vivo Tab TF600T w/keyboard dock for $399 at Best Buy. (They price-matched Micro Center who has the tab o sale for $399 and offers the keyboard dock for free) I think this is a great deal since I get Reward Zone points and have 60 days for a no-hassle return. But when I was browsing the have the ME400C on sale for $439. I didn't realize it runs Windows 8 and not RT. I was very tempted until I realized it doesn't have a keyboard dock, or at least not like the TF600T. And thinking about it, I don't use the keyboard that often on my Infinity. Now I'm not sure what to do.

    I'd appreciate any feedback on pros/cons between the two. Is it worth having Windows 8 with an Atom processor? How does performance compare between the two for general web browsing, movies, etc. The thing that attracts me to the ME400C is the slim design (more than other Windows 8 tabs) and battery life. That is the original reason I went with the RT, battery life. I figured I can get by with RT apps and would wait for Haswell for a full Windows 8 tab.

    I'm sorry for the run-on post but short of buying the ME400C too and doing a side-by-side comparison I'm having a hard time deciding. What items are notable considerations?

    Thank you.
    Performance is kinda the same for both. Which one to choose depends on what you want to use your tablet for.

    I just returned my TF600 and got the TF810 because of proper driver support and I want to be able to run some engineering software for work.
    DCLocal likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodintentions View Post
    Performance is kinda the same for both.
    Mostly, despite the fact Intel hasn't really updated the architecture for the ATOM since they first introduced it they still have managed to do pretty good optimization with Clover Trail.

    In terms of power efficiency, Clover Trail is better than Tegra 3... Clover Trail also exceeds a bit in CPU performance versus the Tegra 3 but falls behind in graphical performance because the GMA is based on the more limited Imagination PowerVR GPU SGX545.

    So overall, it does more or less balance out...

    However, Windows RT is more limited than Windows 8... essentially RT is a stripped down version of Windows 8 and is more locked down like iOS. So by default you can't add any 3rd party desktop apps and are mainly limited to Modern UI/Metro apps. There is also some crippled functionality, like you can't use scanners or use external webcams with RT.

    Though, aside from the still limited number of Modern UI/Metro apps, RT still can offer more potential usage and productivity than competing mobile OS solutions... Just not as much as full Windows 8/Pro, but those are only available for x86 based systems and RT is only for ARM based systems.


    Quote Originally Posted by goodintentions View Post
    Which one to choose depends on what you want to use your tablet for.
    There are a few factors to consider...

    -Full Windows 8 takes up more install space and thus leaves less free space for storage but they also tend to offer more capacity options for x86 based systems, presently maxing at 128GB but won't be long before they'll start offering up to 256GB.

    -Full Windows 8 on the other hand lets you run legacy desktop apps, install apps without needing to work through the MS App Store, and gives all the advantages of a desktop OS versus mobile OS limitations.

    -Similar configuration hardware will cost nearly the same for both ARM and Clover Trail ATOM based systems. However, they'll tend to add features and capabilities that raises the cost... which is one of the reasons why the TF810 costs so much more than either the TF600 or ME400C. Besides, being larger at 11.6" the TF810 also has a WACOM type digitizer and 10 point touch screen (versus 5 points for most ARM and more basic ATOM based tablets).

    -Despite Windows 8 touch screen optimization, the desktop is still not fully suited for touch only control. So the TF810 does provide a advantage for those wishing to use Windows on tablets with the usage of the Active Digitizer Pen, which provides far more accuracy than capacity touch.

    -A 11.6" and larger tablets offer full size keyboards that are easier to type with, this won't effect everyone but many prefer larger keyboards for more efficiency when being productive...

    The Vivo Tab series is basically based on Asus Transformer Series, just running Windows RT/8 instead of Android and offering ATOM instead of just ARM. To reduce costs though the budget ME400C Smart tablet only provides a bluetooth keyboard instead of keyboard dock and is otherwise configured much like the TF600.

    -Performance range of both ARM and ATOM based tablets are roughly about the same as Netbooks...

    -The Pro tablets offer Ultrabook range performance, which is multiple times better than either ARM or ATOM, but Ivy Bridge still lacks the advance power management that both ARM and ATOM offer. So the pro models will lack the ability to go into extreme low power states, won't be able to be always connected, etc.

    However, if you can wait till Haswell comes out then those features will be added... But for now Pro tablets will be limited to relatively short run times compared to either ARM or ATOM based tablets. The trade off being much higher performance and being able to run just about anything you may ever want... Some like the Razer Edge tablet are even optimized for fairly good gaming capabilities, but these will also be pretty high priced.

    Hopefully, Haswell should also help lower the pricing, along with improving run time and feature set but if not there's also the next gen 22nm ATOM Bay Trail coming out by the end of the year as well... Assuming waiting is a option of course...

    If you like the WACOM digital pen but prefer a smaller model then you may consider the Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2, much like the TF810C but it's 10.1"... but like the ME400C Smart, the Lenovo lacks a keyboard dock... though the wireless keyboard they do provide does let you cradle the tablet. The digital pen is also stored internally and thus is harder to lose than the TF810C's pen... along with more custom options like finger print reader, NFC, and cellular modem... In either case, you can also use 3rd party WACOM pens, though not all will fit in the internal slot for the Lenovo...

    Here are some useful youtube videos you can use to get a better idea of what they offer and how they compare...

    Youtube - clipfilmix: Asus Vivotab Tf810c Tablet - drawing & painting review & some gaming

    Youtube - SXTV2: [SX.TVĀ²] Asus Vivo Tab Smart - Black (Performance Related)

    Youtube - gadgetjm: Asus VivoTab Smart vs Asus Memo Pad Smart: Windows 8 vs Android

    Youtube - gadgetjm: Asus VivoTab Smart Review: an affordable Windows 8 tablet

    Youtube - robaxx: Flash games on a Windows 8 Tablet PC with Atom CPU

    Youtube - robaxx: Asus VivoTab Smart ME400C Review - Windows 8 tablet

    Youtube - MobileTechReview: Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2 Review

    Youtube - MobileTechReview: Microsoft Surface Pro vs Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2 Comparison Smackdown

    Youtube - pcper: Intel SoC Power Consumption Comparison - PC Perspective

    Youtube - tenninx: Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2 running latest 3DMark 2013

    Youtube - intelSylvia: Tablet Battery Battles - How many movies can you watch?

    And some articles...

    Anandtech: The ARM vs x86 Wars Have Begun: In-Depth Power Analysis of Atom, Krait & Cortex A15

    HotHardWare: Intel Clover Trail Atom Z2760 Tablet Performance Preview
    Last edited by zeo; 02-26-2013 at 03:55 AM.

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    Thank you goodintentions and Zoe, this is some great information. Do either of you know if the ME400C can run Photoshop or Lightroom and if so, is it usable? This is not a prprerequisite for me (but would be a boon) but trying to get a feel for capability.

    Now I need to check out the TF810C. Oh, such a slippery slope...

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    Photoshop and Lightroom can run on the ATOM but like Netbooks the performance will be limited, but still usable if your needs are small or you're at least patient... The performance of Ultrabooks on up is preferable if you're going to be using powerful programs. So you may be better off considering one of the Pro tablets if run time isn't a issue...

    However, there's a bit of a issue with using the WACOM pen with Photoshop and Windows 8 at the moment, lacks pressure sensitivity, but it's driver related and they'll eventually update them or you can install directly from WACOM... though, I'm not sure if what's available is still in Beta or not and also it seems some models, like Samsungs, don't have the issue as they provided their own drivers.

    Programs like ArtRage though work fine...

    Mind that some apps may improve performance over time, since they're still developing drivers and optimizing performance under Windows 8 but ARM and ATOM are meant more for long run times than performance... at least till the next gen models come out and start offering us better options.

    Some of the videos on youtube include examples of running Photoshop on these tablets that you can check out if that helps you decide...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCLocal View Post
    Thank you goodintentions and Zoe, this is some great information. Do either of you know if the ME400C can run Photoshop or Lightroom and if so, is it usable? This is not a prprerequisite for me (but would be a boon) but trying to get a feel for capability.

    Now I need to check out the TF810C. Oh, such a slippery slope...
    If you intend to run graphically intensive software often, then I highly suggest you get something with more processing power like an i5. I want to run some programs that do structural calculations, so the clovertrail should run just fine, which it does. But if I want to work with microstation or autocad, I still go back to my i7 desktop machine.

    The ME400 and the TF800 are pretty much the same thing. The ME400 is really the TF800 on a budget. You don't get a keyboard dock with extra battery, for instance. But it's almost half price of the TF800.

    Again, what are you getting this for? If it's just for entertainment like most people, then RT should work just fine. But if you want to do intensive photoshopping, then get an ultrabook with i5 or i7. The ME400 and TF800 are meant to be somewhere in between.

    Added by edit.

    In regard to comparing the TF800 and the ME400 with netbooks, I don't think it's a fair comparison.

    When people think of netbooks, they think of the ones that manufacturers came out with back in the mid to late 2000s. The netbooks were meant to be budgeted laptops. Manufacturers gave them very low resolution screens, very low memory (like 256 mb ram), very low end graphics cards, low end spinning disk hard drives, and windows xp, which was a resource hog compared to 7 and 8. Back in the days, I had a friend who had just gotten a job as an English lecturer at the local college who decided to get a "windows machine" and got one of these low end netbooks. Of course, she didn't have a very good experience with it. A little later, she went ahead and shelled out 4-5 times the amount of money she spent on her netbook to get a macbook. I remember at one of our conversations she compared the netbook she got to the much more expensive mac as proof that macs are superior to windows.

    The point is when you compare machines like the TF800 and ME400 to the old netbooks, it's an unfair comparison. The netbook was never meant to be in competition with the mac or the current models of ultrabooks and tablet/laptop hybrids. They were meant as very cheap laptops that are overworked, underpowered, ready-to-fall-apart machines. People hated the netbook because they didn't know any better.

    I'm reminded of the same phenomenon happening with android and iOS. My current boyfriend is a testament to this. He wanted to get his first smartphone, so he went to the store. Got the cheapest android he could find. Obviously, he didn't have a good experience with it. Asked his friends and they said get the iphone it's better than android... you're the proof. So, he got the iphone 4s. On one of our first dates, during a tech discussions he actually took out his old $50 android phone and compared it to the iphone as proof that iOS was better than android. I sighed before taking out my s3 and tried to explain to him why he's not making a fair comparison.

    Anyway, they've made some improvements with clovertrail. For one thing, the gpu has improved a lot since the previous models. It's also more power efficient. But the main improvement is windows 8 itself, which was designed specifically to run on such a light horse. You just simply can't compare the old netbooks to the current atom-run machines. It's an unfair comparison.
    Last edited by goodintentions; 02-26-2013 at 09:49 AM.
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    I understand what you're trying to point out but I disagree that the comparison isn't fair, at least entirely as it is a valid comparison when it comes to performance...

    Netbooks have only recently been discontinued and at their peak provided about the same performance as you're getting with Clover Trails. You're thinking more of when Netbooks first came out but they improved a bit over the years.

    In fact, the Cedar Trail ATOM was the first to make use of the SGX545 GPU for the GMA 3600 (400MHz) / 3650 (640MHz), which Clover Trail also uses at 533MHz, and provided similar max clock speed with the dual core 1.86GHz N2800, which you can say was the peak of the N-Series ATOMs and a fairly better comparison than the early single core N270. Also, Netbooks had long made the switch to Windows 7.

    For Asus, it's was pretty much right after the Eee PC 1000 series was discontinued and they had already switched to the Seashell casing 1005/1001, etc series that they switched to Windows 7 and then they came out with the 1015/1011, etc and then 1025 series before they finally ended the Eee PC line in the following two years. Windows 7 Starter Edition was pretty much specifically for Netbooks anyway.

    Mind that there were other reasons besides limited performance that rendered Netbooks very affordable... Netbooks had very little R&D to worry about with Intel having the ATOM on a long 5 year product cycle instead of the more rapid tic-toc 2 year cycle they keep the Core i-Series on, made it a point to focus on off the self parts, and steadily minimized components.

    Tablets on the other hand are pretty much all custom, meaning more cost than off the self parts, along with needing to be designed lighter and thinner for actual mobile usage and requirements for higher specs because things like the screen need to be used closer than a laptop would be and would have to handle being roughly treated more.

    So tablets will generally always cost more just by their nature... more durable glass, digitizers, etc all add to the cost as well.

    Meaning, unlike a netbook and laptop comparison the difference in cost isn't as reflective in a difference in performance.

    This is part of the problem as for many consumers who are new to tablets and don't understand why a tablet that cost as much as a Ultrabook can still only provide about the same performance range as a netbook.

    Though they do compensate with the fact Intel finally managed to get power management efficient enough to provide ARM like run times. Something that wasn't possible with previous ATOMs without slapping on a heavy and large battery.

    However, you do have a bit of a point with Windows 8 as a factor... It's easier to run, especially the Modern UI/Metro but the desktop environment still imposes much of the same resource loads as Windows 7 does and since programs like Photoshop are still desktop apps it means you can expect similar performance as what netbooks provided, albeit at their peak and not their lowest comparison point as the clearer point of contention.

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    Soundwave
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    Thank you for the good information. I'm still trying to decide but leaning toward my original plan to go with the TF600 and wait for Haswell. Right now I have no real demands, just checking things out. I feel like $399 is a good deal for the bundle, I was just caught off guard by the price of the ME600C given it is Windows 8.

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    Hi everyone,
    Does tf600t screen protector and case fit my me400c? I ckecked the diemensions from internet and they are same I think?

 

 
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