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Thread: T100 widi/miracast support & troubleshooting MEGA thread...

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorburn View Post
    Its worth noting that this isn't Intel WiDi, that no longer exists in Windows 8.1 AFAIK. I worked at Intel until recently and doing WiDi demos was the bane of my life.
    The T100 has only ever been available with Windows 8.1. Some in this thread have WiDi working with the T100.

    Even so, your experience confirms the belief that WiDi is still too buggy for wide adoption. Maybe Miracast is a better choice, hard to say.

    Would you recommend users not even bother with WiDi? Are the problems foundational or something that might be fixed with updates?
    Last edited by Banise; 01-04-2014 at 06:13 PM.

  2. #52
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    Remember how many years it took for Bluetooth to work even remotely right? It will be at least another 2-3 years for these wireless video protocols to be worth using. I dropped $70 on a Bluetooth headset that was crap and $90 on a Bluetooth mouse that worked but not as good as a $5 Walmart USB mouse. Won't make that mistake again...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Banise View Post
    Maybe Miracast is a better choice, hard to say.
    Miracast is based on WIDI... the WiFi Direct peer to peer setup is similar to how Bluetooth devices are paired. Applications vary, and there are optional components that make standardizing questionable until everyone can agree on what will and won't be included as standard, but generally it works by setting up a connection over 2.4GHz and then streaming over 5GHz for minimum interferences and maximum bandwidth.

    Idealy, any WIDI compatible device should work but like Bluetooth it doesn't always work smoothly and usually best with same brand products (because of the optional features that may or may not be part of the setup) and with dual band WiFi that supports both 2.4GHz and 5GHz on both ends.

    Cheaper products may use 3rd party utility to setup connection and are less reliable, while the easier to use products can tend to be very pricey...

    Introducing Intel® WiDi on Windows 8.1

    Miracast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banise View Post
    The T100 has only ever been available with Windows 8.1. Some in this thread have WiDi working with the T100.

    Even so, your experience confirms the belief that WiDi is still too buggy for wide adoption. Maybe Miracast is a better choice, hard to say.

    Would you recommend users not even bother with WiDi? Are the problems foundational or something that might be fixed with updates?
    AFAIK there is no Intel WiDi anymore as of Windows 8.1 - only Miracast via the support built in to Windows 8.1.

    If you look on the WiDi download page the Intel® Wireless Display Software for Windows only list support for Windows 8.0 and will not install on 8.1. The other applications have been updated to support Miracast and Core i3/i5/i7 and Atom Z37xx chips use Quicksync to do the encoding.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorburn View Post
    AFAIK there is no Intel WiDi anymore as of Windows 8.1 - only Miracast via the support built in to Windows 8.1.

    If you look on the WiDi download page the Intel® Wireless Display Software for Windows only list support for Windows 8.0 and will not install on 8.1. The other applications have been updated to support Miracast and Core i3/i5/i7 and Atom Z37xx chips use Quicksync to do the encoding.
    Did you not look at my post? I included a "Introducing Intel® WiDi on Windows 8.1" link clearly showing Intel still includes WiDi in 8.1 and explained Miracast is just part of WiDi...

    Quicksync is enabled for the Bay Trail T models, like the T100 uses... but for models using the Bay Trail M/D (Pentium/Celeron) models it's disabled... Those models compensate with higher power levels than the Bay Trail T models operate at, which allows the system to push the performance a bit higher for both CPU and GPU at the same time... along with higher average clocks in most cases, not counting Boost Mode clock speeds but means they're more sustainable for more consistent performance as the trade off... and that's along with support with up to 8GB of RAM, compared to Bay Trail T that will never offer more than 4GB...

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeo View Post
    Did you not look at my post? I included a "Introducing Intel® WiDi on Windows 8.1" link clearly showing Intel still includes WiDi in 8.1 and explained Miracast is just part of WiDi...
    There is an element of face saving in that I think, 'Miracast is just a part of WiDi' is technically correct as they added support in WiDi 3.5, but despite their similarities (both based on WiFi Direct) the two systems are not interchangeable and for all intents and purposes Intel WiDi is dead - AFAIK you can't use an Intel WiDi adaptor (without Miracast support) with the Windows 8.1's implementation of wireless displays and you can't install the Intel WiDi software.

    The purpose of Intel WiDi originally was to add a unique selling point to Intel Core i3/i5/i7 series laptops with integrated or switchable graphics and Intel wireless cards, to try and convince customers to insist on higher margin (for Intel) Core i-series CPU's and wireless cards, not to create a wireless graphics 'standard'. Take up was poor though and it won few fans with poor reliability and expensive and hard to find adapters, so they gradually lessened the restrictions, allowing third-party wireless cards and later adding Miracast support. Now they've finally taken it out back and put it down, with a little help from Microsoft, they just aren't quite ready to admit it.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeo View Post
    Quicksync is enabled for the Bay Trail T models, like the T100 uses... but for models using the Bay Trail M/D (Pentium/Celeron) models it's disabled... Those models compensate with higher power levels than the Bay Trail T models operate at, which allows the system to push the performance a bit higher for both CPU and GPU at the same time... along with higher average clocks in most cases, not counting Boost Mode clock speeds but means they're more sustainable for more consistent performance as the trade off... and that's along with support with up to 8GB of RAM, compared to Bay Trail T that will never offer more than 4GB...
    This is all correct, but I don't see the relevance? For 1080p video encoding lack of Quicksync isn't offset by higher clock-speeds in the Pentium parts.

  7. #57
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    well keeping to the facts about T100 WiDi support...

    The T100 did see my PTV3000 right out of the box and listed it under devices. it connected with no additional downloads or drivers...
    that being said.. the display on my tv was "pretty good". standard def and 720p played smoothly with sound. but 1080p dropped quite a few noticeable frames (did not stutter sound)

    now, ill admit that I have not spent much time trying to see if it can be tweaked or try any other application other then VLC for playback.
    Last edited by john_m; 01-05-2014 at 11:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorburn View Post
    This is all correct, but I don't see the relevance? For 1080p video encoding lack of Quicksync isn't offset by higher clock-speeds in the Pentium parts.
    It is in part offset by the higher performance, without Quicksync doesn't mean you can't do any video editing or encoding... It just means most of it will be based on CPU performance but higher CPU performance means less of a difference in performance.

    Keep in mind that despite having Quicksync that Bay Trail T is limited to operate within a limited SDP range. This keeps power usage always within the acceptable range for mobile device usage but means neither the CPU or GPU can ever use too much power at the same time. Thus explaining why the Z3770 can have better CPU performance but the Z3740 can still have better GPU performance, as both are working within a similar power usage budget limit but have different priorities.

    The higher end Bay Trail M and D models will operate at a higher energy budget and thus can work both the CPU and GPU harder than the Bay Trail T models can, at least at the same time. Add, the option to have systems configured with up to 8GB of RAM gives more free system resources as well for those models to work with than the Bay Trail T models have access to.

    So, overall, there might not be a noticeable difference in the lack of Quicksync in those models... aside from higher CPU usage and greater average power draw...

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    Quote Originally Posted by zeo View Post
    It is in part offset by the higher performance, without Quicksync doesn't mean you can't do any video editing or encoding... It just means most of it will be based on CPU performance but higher CPU performance means less of a difference in performance.

    Keep in mind that despite having Quicksync that Bay Trail T is limited to operate within a limited SDP range. This keeps power usage always within the acceptable range for mobile device usage but means neither the CPU or GPU can ever use too much power at the same time. Thus explaining why the Z3770 can have better CPU performance but the Z3740 can still have better GPU performance, as both are working within a similar power usage budget limit but have different priorities.
    I'll well aware with this, I believe I posted up the findings and explained the reasoning in the first place.

    The higher end Bay Trail M and D models will operate at a higher energy budget and thus can work both the CPU and GPU harder than the Bay Trail T models can, at least at the same time. Add, the option to have systems configured with up to 8GB of RAM gives more free system resources as well for those models to work with than the Bay Trail T models have access to.

    So, overall, there might not be a noticeable difference in the lack of Quicksync in those models... aside from higher CPU usage and greater average power draw...
    Quicksync gives a BIG performance improvement. Testing with it enabled/disabled on the Z3740 with Cyberlink MediaEspresso 6.5 video conversion takes about 1/4 the time with Quicksync enabled. This task is CPU bound (it can't use the Intel iGPU for encoding, besides for Quicksync) and the N3520 burst clock-speed is less than double the Z3740 base clock speed, so even assuming perfect clock-speed scaling you'll find for Quicksync enabled tasks the Z3740 is a better choice.



    Flipside like you say is 64-bit firmware and greater memory support on the Bay Trail-M and D models is very nice. It's very disappointing that Microsoft cripple these devices with their insistence on 32-bit Windows and 2GB memory for the lower cost Small Form Factor Windows license.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorburn View Post
    and the N3520 burst clock-speed is less than double the Z3740 base clock speed, so even assuming perfect clock-speed scaling you'll find for Quicksync enabled tasks the Z3740 is a better choice.
    Quicksync is preferable, I agree, but the performance difference may not suffer as much as you're thinking because those models will be offering much higher sustained performance for more consistency... Keep in mind that Quicksync doesn't apply to everything anyway... So, overall, you are usually better off with getting higher CPU performance.

    Now, the N3520 may not have double the CPU performance of the Z3740 but it can operate with a much higher energy budget... meaning it won't get throttled like the Z3740 does to remain with the mobile power usage range. The base clock for the N3520 is a much higher 2.166 GHz... So average performance stays pretty close to the Burst Clock of 2.42 GHz and models with active cooling can offer those max performance for much longer periods to get work done.

    This all means it doesn't need to rely on Quicksync as much and can still offer pretty decent performance... though, you may still prefer a Core i3 Haswell to truly compensate, I'm just saying it may not be so noticeable without benchmarking and making direct comparisons... Especially, if you do a lot of effects and other things that Quicksync won't help with then the higher CPU performance would seem to have the advantage.

    I also agree, it would be nice to have both but marketing those models with Haswell based Celeron and Pentiums means Intel risks conflicting their device ranges... While, we still got till Cherry Trail before Intel puts some real performance into these ATOM based offerings.

    These HD GMA's are pretty good but are scaled back pretty far with only 4 execution units... Even the Ivy Bridge/Haswell based Celeron/Pentium versions have 6 execution units and the normal HD4000 has 16... With Cherry Trail, Intel ups the HD GMA to Broadwell based with 16 execution units... So we're looking at an increase of performance that could rival the HD4000 before the end of 2014... So, while annoying, it's understandable they still want to keep the upgrade path clear for the next gen models they plan to introduce before the end of the year...

 

 
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