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Thread: Probably buying in next week, quick questions

  1. #11
    rscheller
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    I can vouch for OneDrive. It syncs up on all devices and it's quick.

    One thing I will say is be prepared for several hours or more of updates from Asus Live Update as well as Windows itself. When you reach the light at the end of that tunnel though, I believe you'll be impressed with the T100.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LjL View Post
    Keep in mind that unless you turn the T100 completely off (shutdown or hibernation), just putting it into standby will still consume a bit of battery - potentially more than older laptops, because while those only need to refresh RAM, now, with Connected Standby, other things like the wifi card are also kept on, albeit with extremely reduced power demands.
    Not if Connected Standby is actually working as it should... Connected Standby is a hybrid of Sleep and Hibernation mode and so would use much less power than traditional PC Sleep/Suspend... Even when actually updating, it's only activates the bare minimum to run updates and then quickly shuts them back down... while it stays pretty much shut down if no updates are detected... and it's only periodic and you could change the settings to have it check less often to further decrease activity...

    Along with choosing what features can still run while in the CS state, if any...

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeo View Post
    Not if Connected Standby is actually working as it should... Connected Standby is a hybrid of Sleep and Hibernation mode and so would use much less power than traditional PC Sleep/Suspend... Even when actually updating, it's only activates the bare minimum to run updates and then quickly shuts them back down... while it stays pretty much shut down if no updates are detected... and it's only periodic and you could change the settings to have it check less often to further decrease activity...

    Along with choosing what features can still run while in the CS state, if any...
    I had issues with sleep on the last Asus Transformer T100 64GB model I had. I could never solve it before I had to return it back for a different issue. I was trying to figure out what UART Controller (/_SB.URT1) was since it was one of the major cause of it. Closest thing I found was a bug issue with Surface RT and a bluetooth module causing the battery drain.

    But battery life on it was amazing, just wish I could've gotten good standby times.

  4. #14
    LjL
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    No, really, zeo, that's not what Connected Standby is. I don't know how to put this anymore. "Hybrid sleep", which is an entirely different thing, is a hybrid of standby and hibernation. "Connected standby" most certainly doesn't hibernate anything at all.

    "Connected standby is very different from the traditional ACPI Sleep (S3) and Hibernate (S4) states."

    It's true that CS activates apps and services only periodically (unless it receives a push notification, which DOES require the wifi card to still be connected to your AP, albeit in a power-saving state)

    "ACPI Sleep and Hibernate completely pause all app, service, and driver activity when the processors are powered off. In contrast, connected standby allows apps, services, and drivers to keep running, but they run in a tightly controlled manner to save power and extend battery life."

    "Connected standby keeps the networking devices powered on but in an extremely low power mode to maintain connectivity."


    The concept of "Connected standby" is defined so very broadly that "Connected standby is a screen-off sleep state. Any time the system has the screen off, it is said to be in connected standby."

    All the above citations in italics are taken from the Microsoft page What is connected standby? (Windows Drivers)

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by LjL View Post
    No, really, zeo, that's not what Connected Standby is.
    Sorry but you're just getting caught up in semantics... For all intents and purpose CS is a hybrid of Sleep/Suspend and Hibernation... It doesn't matter that it's still doing something when we're comparing power usages! You know, the actual point being made here!

    S3 for example means power is always maintained to RAM, which still uses a lot more power than CS does during its idle state... CS power usage goes down to low W range and rarely goes more than a couple mw even when checking for updates!

    While Hibernate is the only mode that truly shuts off everything, and it does that by storing the data from RAM in a file on the drive to quickly restore that data back to RAM once the system wakes up...

    CS works similarly in that nearly the entire system is shut off except for only the key part needed to wake the system up... So for most of the time the system will be using next to no power and a lot less than a S3 state!

    Thus why it's considered a hybrid of sleep/suspend and hibernate... Since it doesn't entirely shut off like hibernate but it also doesn't use as much power as the S3 state...

    So it doesn't really matter that CS is still working on something when that something still uses less power than a S3 state and you still get the benefit of having over 95% of the SoC turned off during that state, except for the periodic wake ups to check for and possibly run updates but even then the system never fully wakes and thus power usage is kept to a minimum even for updating...

    Really, prior to Connected Standby PC's with S3 could be counted on for maybe most of the day before the battery ran low... But with Connected Standby we now have devices capable of going days to even weeks between charges!


    The only thing is Connected Standby support is a lot like 64bit support... everything from the hardware and firmware to the OS and drivers have to support it for it to work... Anything in all that that doesn't comply with the rest means it won't work...

    So early adopters had to wait till they worked out all the bugs from the firmware on up to the drivers... but most of those should be fixed now and should mainly come down to whether the system is defective or not...

  6. #16
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    A big part of why connected standby uses less power than S3 on a traditional laptop is because of changes in Intel's requirements on board components with Haswell and no Bay Trail. CS will always require more power than S3. The biggest difference is, what Intel has mandated OEM/ODMs use for board components means that power consumption is WAY down for CS/S3.

    S3 requires more than just the RAM to be powered, parts of the main board/motherboard and BIOS also have to be powered. As a comparison, my Ivy Bridge powered desktop in S3 uses around 1.8w with both of the NICs in lowest power mode, but still on (IE, wake from S3 enabled). If I disable wake from S3 it drops to 1.3w. Its still drawing power though. By comparison, if you look at some Haswell desktop with proper power supplies to support that low a power draw, some will effectively read 0w on something like a kill-a-watt meter, because their actual power consumption is well below 1w.

    Also compare a "traditional" (and by that I mean, generally Ivy Bridge or older) ultrabook with a Haswell Ultrabook. Most times those Haswell ultrabooks have 2-3 times the standby time that an older one does. In most cases, its still just DDR3 SODIMMs in them, so the biggest change are other components are lower power draw.

    However, the "big thing" is both being able to do meaningful work while drawing no more power than S3 while NOT doing work and while doing work, drawing very tiny amounts of power more than S3.

    In most cases, the difference between S3 and Si0x (the actual power state of Connect Standby) is very little in terms of power consumption and run time. However, on the same machine, S3 will always be at least slightly longer, even if nothing is running in CS and the wifi adapter is disabled. The difference is probably going to be very, very small...say a matter of a few single digit percents. Running a bunch in CS, the power consumption might be significanlty higher than S3 due to all of the wakes and components running.

    I've never tested S3 on the T100 versus CS on it, but I can say that my T100 lasts longer in CS than my i5-3317u based ultrabook lasts in S3. The former, by my math, would last about 18-21 days in connected standby from 100% charge. My laptop on the other hand with 100% charge will last about 10 days.

    That is certainly good enough with connected standby that I am not going to sweat any minor differences in run time between CS and S3 on my T100.

    That said, I don't have a lot running in the background in CS on my T100. Pretty much just email and calendar notifications.

    Zeo, Si0x does NOT write out the contents of the RAM to disk like hibernation does. Si0x IS battery state aware, so if the battery power drops too low, it WILL write out the contents of RAM and enter true hibernation/S4 at whatever threshold you have Windows set to hibernate/shut down on critical battery level.

    If Si0x did that, it would probably use significantly more power as it would have to continuely write out main memory and then read back in from the disk everytime it came to a higher power state to do work before dropping back in to the lowest power state with connected standby.

    Si0x leaves the RAM in self refresh mode like S3 until it is called to do any additional work as well as any other bits that need to be (which is generally not any more than S3 needs, except when doing any actual work).
    Last edited by azazel1024; 04-17-2014 at 01:33 PM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by azazel1024 View Post
    Zeo, Si0x does NOT write out the contents of the RAM to disk like hibernation does.
    I'm well aware of that, but again the point of the comparison is not literal but how the power down is managed and how it compares to the power usages of the other traditional power saving options... The whole point being pointing out how the battery life compares and the basic reason why!

    Hibernate gives you the most extension to battery life because the system is literally shut off... Versus S3 that still keeps some things active for a faster wake... but that's the extent of the comparison! Both S3 and Hibernate are slower than CS anyway because they require transitional state to go through but CS is more like scaling down to an extremely low idle...

    The key aspect being compared with hibernation is simply the fact that CS also allows most of the system to be turned off! Basically advance power gating for all components so anything not needed is shut off to reduce load to near zero until such time as either the system wakes or it spikes a bit when checking for updates before just as quickly going back into the extreme idle state.

    CS also takes advantage of specific hardware like LP-DDR RAM that's capable of supporting very low power states and is part of the actual hardware requirements for supporting CS...

    While, it should also be pointed out that most of the time CS remains in the extremely low idle state where it's only using W (micro Watt) amounts of power and even when it checks for and runs updates it only goes into the mW range... So never really goes even close to 1W... and you can keep it there most of the time by turning off anything that would use CS... like notifications and taking all apps off the Lock Screen apps list, etc. So there's nothing to update or check for...

    Comparison to Haswell should be limited though because Intel hasn't yet put their Core processors into a true SoC... Haswell is a step in the right direction but they still have a way to go before it'll have all the energy saving features that their mobile SoCs get... thus we'll still see improvements in the upcoming updates to the Core processors from Intel...

    Anyway, comparisons from when the T100 was first released to how well CS works now after the latest updates should show how things have improved and how only now are we really seeing the true potential of CS for improving battery life...

  8. #18
    Jazz
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    This discussion snowballed..... LOL

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by clintro View Post
    This discussion snowballed..... LOL
    The risk we take to have such passionate, knowledgeable members on these boards!

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenziedfemale View Post
    The risk we take to have such passionate, knowledgeable members on these boards!
    I appreciate the charitable description, but I'd only consider myself passionate :-D

 

 
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